Nagrarok over at Farseer Nagrarok mentioned something in his post on patch 3.2 that I felt I need to delve into further, something that I have complained about with guildies in the past (who were mostly sympathetic to my rants), something that has touched a nerve ever since I started playing World of Warcraft.  That is the topic of rolling on shards and other enchanting materials while in a group and/or instance.

Let me give you a quick example of a couple situations that occur in the game:

(You just kill a boss in X instance, and Y piece of gear drops)

Situation 1:
Player A: can anyone DE? (disenchant)
Player A: ok then RTS (roll to sell)

Situation 2:
Player A: can anyone DE?
Player B: I can
Player A: ok then roll for shards

Now, these situations may seem commonplace, nothing out of the ordinary, especially if you PuG a lot of instance runs.  However, is this the same way things are handled when doing guild runs? Usually not, at least not in my experience.  From what I have seen, guild runs of instances do one of two things.  Either the shards go into the guild bank (more common in raids) or the shards go to the enchanter(s) of the group (if there are multiple enchanters they roll, or work it out themselves).

My complaint is, however, that even in PuGs, the convention that I mentioned should not be how things are handled, and here are my reasons why:

  1. Enchanting is often considered one of the "gathering" professions, in that you have to gather (disenchant) in order to obtain the resulting product, similar to the way a miner collects ore, an herbalist gathers herbs, or a skinner collects pelts.

    If you are running an instance, and come across a mining node, or an herb, or kill a mob that is skinnable, there is rarely ever a question about who gets the resulting product.  Generally, the people with that profession just take turns on gathering, and the group continues on their merry way.  With enchanting, however, you come across an item that nobody can use, so you ask if anyone can disenchant it.  If someone can disenchant it, it gets broken down, and everyone gets to roll.  So...

    Mining = Miner gets the ore
    Herbalism = Herbalist gets the weed
    Skinning = Skinner gets the pelt
    Enchanting = Everyone has a chance at it?
  2. Some people will say, "Yes, but enchanters can enhance their gear, and the other gathering professions cannot."

    This complaint brings me to my next point.  Yes, it is true that enchanters can enhance their gear, but, this type of enhancement is generally not limited to the enchanter, with the exception of the ring enchants.  However, enchanting is not the only profession that gets a bonus of some sort.  In fact, all of the professions get some sort of bonus, including all of the gathering professions (Mining rewards Toughness, Skinning rewards Master of Anatomy, and Herbalism gets Lifeblood).  How beneficial each of these is to you depends on your class, however, each of them is beneficial in some way, and Blizzard has made a concious effort to make sure that they are all relatively balanced.
  3. It is by far more difficult to farm enchanting materials than it is materials for other professions.  For instance, you will often see individuals farming their respective product while waiting for a group to arrive/get ready.  This is not something that is possible with enchanting, because the majority of our product comes from the instances themselves.

    Basically, in order to farm enchanting materials, you have to find a group, choose an instance, run the instance hoping to be successful, kill bosses that drop loot that nobody needs, and then win on the rolls for the shards.  This means that even if you "farm" for hours, you could still end up with little to no shards.
So, with that in mind, I do have a few suggestions on how to fix my perceived problem:

  1. Become the leader of as many groups as you can.  Being the leader of the group allows you to specify certain ground rules for the group.  So, if you are the lead, specify the ground rules as follows (note that these suggestions are not for raid environments):
    • Use group loot, in order to make it easier to handle.
    • If someone needs gear, click Need.  If you do not need the gear, then you will pass.
    • Enchanters can click Greed, so as to increase the looting speed if nobody Needs the item.
    • If nobody wins the item, then it will be rolled on to sell.
    • If an enchanter wins the item, they can disenchant the item, and they get to keep the resulting materials.
  2. If you are not able to become the group leader, but are the only enchanter in the group, specify that any items that you disenchant, you will be keeping the resulting materials.  If they do not like those rules, they can roll on the items as well, and can sell them if they wish (which is what would happen if there were no enchanters in the group).  Patch 3.2 added one additional option that you may allow as well, and that is if someone else wins an item, and they want it disenchanted, they can do so by trading it to you afterward, as they have already won the item, but can now trade it for a while afterward.
  3. If you are not the only enchanter in the group, and are not the group leader, things get a little more difficult, in that you have significantly less choice in the matter.  However, you can request to the group that only the enchanters be allowed to roll on the disenchantable items, so you can make it at least fair between then enchanters.  If you specify this ahead of time, you will likely receive little resistence from the other enchanters, because they will be benefitting from the arrangement as well.
In the end, what you will be trying to do is make enchanting more profitable for yourself, but remember to be curteous about it, and if the group is resistant to the request, you can always abide by the group's wishes or leave the group if you want.

See you in the Shadows,

10/28/2009 05:35:22 am

So in other words, enchanters cant go and buy a bunch of useless greens for the purpose of DE'ing, with the results of one epic shard sold?

Psh, as a miner, if you want the ore so damn bad, you can have it. I wish my farming resulted in buying greens of the AH for 20g, but no, it results in hours of farming.

10/28/2009 05:43:01 am

See, the problem with enchanters taking all shards is that it screws over the other people in the run. Look at the example you gave.

Situation 1:
Player A: can anyone DE? (disenchant)
Player A: ok then RTS (roll to sell)

Situation 2:
Player A: can anyone DE?
Player B: I can
Player A: ok then roll for shards

If there is no enchanter then everyone at least gets a chance at something to sell. They get a couple gold. If someone says, hey I'm an enchanter, and then proceeds to keep all the shards, you've taken any chance that group has a reward.

As to your point regarding skinning or mining, without a skinner or miner in the group, no one gets that node or skin anyway. The only way anyone is benefitting from that is if they can mine or skin. By your logic, it's much more beneficial to me to make sure my group has no enchanters in it, because if I invite you to come, you are going to steal my chance at some loot.

10/28/2009 05:47:59 am

While I understand where Unknown is coming from with his comment (yes it is possible to "farm" the AH), it ultimately results in a relatively poor profit for effort margin when compared to the other gathering professions.

Regardless, one thing I did fail to mention in the post is that whether an enchanter is available in the group or not should be determined prior to loot being rolled on to begin with. This will be especially important with the new changes becoming available in patch 3.3.

10/28/2009 06:00:25 am

@mattrickhoffman I recommend you re-read the article as I believe you may have overlooked some of the key points.

1. The two examples given are how most groups handle things now. Either nobody can DE, and you just roll greed on the item, or you have someone that can DE, and that person is expected to disenchant an item for someone else.

2. While the situation that I posted would be ideal for enchanters, it would be unlikely, and it was the recommendation as if the group will agree with your looting rules (which most groups will not).

Ultimately, the ending suggestion is this:
1. If you need the item (even for off-spec) you roll need.
2. If you are an enchanter, or want to sell the item, you roll greed.
3. If you do not want the item in any way, you pass.

Whoever wins the item with the greed roll can ask if the enchanter will DE the item, but it should not be expected that the enchanter DE the item without some sort of benefit.

It is this expectation that I have a problem with, not with the distribution of the wealth of the items.

10/29/2009 12:32:27 pm


"Enchanting is often considered one of the "gathering" professions, in that you have to gather (disenchant) in order to obtain the resulting product, similar to the way a miner collects ore, an herbalist gathers herbs, or a skinner collects pelts"

is pretty far from the truth. Enchanting is the only CRAFTING profession that has the gathering portion of it built into it. In no way does that make it a gathering profession readily comparable to skinning/mining/herbing. In fact the disenchanting part is much more akin to prospecting for JCs. Having a max gatherer of all 3 gathering profs, along with an enchanter I can say that getting abyss crystals and dream shards is far easier then hoping to skin an arcitc fur or pick a frost lotus. Mining has it a tad easier with titanium nodes but not that much more so.

If you don't want to DE stuff for a group. Fine. No skin off my back. But just because noone can use the piece doesn't mean you automatically get to DE it and keep the shards for yourself. simply greed along with the rest of us and keep what you win, shard it, sell it, whatever.

Getting mats for leveling enchanting was a bitch but please don't pretend that infinite dust/abyss crystals/dream shards are hard to get at 80

6/13/2010 01:28:09 am

most retarded thread ever!!!! IF you are to keep all mats from DE fine, with that being the case ALL enchanters should NOT be asking for mats to supply their service. This would be the only acceptable option and can't be enforced in any way! I do agree that skinners/miners/herbs if HARVESTED should be rolled for though.

5/1/2019 10:09:21 pm

Thanks for sharing


Leave a Reply.